Thursday, November 24, 2005

R's LED Lights vs. Can.Tire's LED Lights

vapo was deciding which LED lights were better later that evening...

The verdict: He is leaning towards the R's brand LED lights which are a lot dimmer thus, it's perfect as moonlights and it is much longer than Can.Tire's LED lights... Plus, R's LED lights are cheaper with a 20 year warranty... ;)

Even though I can't see the difference in the brightness of the lights, I think I am leaning towards the R's brand LED lights too... :)

vapo will leave them on for the night and see the next day if any lights/bulbs are turned off...then we will know for sure... :)

Moonlights and other goodies

Today, vapo and I went to the North York BA plaza to eat lunch and to pick up a tong from a fellow fishperson for our 20G tank...it's a smaller tong then what we have so it works well for the 20G tank... :) It was definitely a good deal!

Tongs: $5

Next, we went inside BA North York to see what goodies they have inside...They didn't seem to have much that we considered worthy of purchasing... :) Haha, we find the livestock and the equipments etc. a bit pricey... As for their display tank that is infested with red flatworms... It isn't as bad as before but you can still see the little buggers inside... :P they stay very still so if you don't look closely (enough), you will think they were algae! :) That's what I thought at first but vapo corrected me... :)

After that, we went to AquaP because we haven't been there in a long time...the owner might be wondering what happened to us since we haven't shown our faces in ages... :P Anyways, they didn't have any new shipment tonight but it might have came on Tuesday and now the good things are all gone... :) We did notice they have a lot of second hand tanks...which would be perfect for vapo's sump... :)

Finally, we trekked on over to BA Ken to pick up some more Nassarius Snails since they are still on special and they are really good guys since they do what they are suppose to... :P So we ended up picking up 10 Nassarius Snails... :)

Nassarius Snails: 1o for $19.90 (1 for $1.99)

Total (including tax): $22.89

For our last stop, we went to R to pick up some LED lights that we can use for moonlights...It is R's own brand too! A fellow fishperson and friend suggested which might be better than the lights we got at Can. Tire... :P WE FOUND IT! It is a lot less expensive than the lights we got earlier and it looks alright too...only $11.99 + tax and it's longer too, 17'! Have to wait until we get home to see how the lights compare to the ones from Can. Tire... Next, we got a bucket of calcium (R's own brand) for $11.99 + tax and a bucket of alkaline (R'S own brand) for $9.99 + tax! We believe these are good deals and a lot cheaper than the LFS... :p No wonder there weren't many buckets left as other fishpeople might have had the same idea... Only fishpeople will get these now...

R's Blue LED Lights 17": $11.99
R's Bucket of Calcium: $11.99
R's Bucket of Alkaline: $9.99

Total (including tax): $39.07

So our total spending for the day and night is: $66.96

I love spending time with vapo doing this, I love working together to do something... :) I will need to find some slippers and sofa for us to fishwatch soon... ;)

Sunday, November 20, 2005

More pests! Flatworms!!!!

Tonight, vapo and I discovered...FLATWORMS!!! @_@

It's the orange kind so it's pretty easy to see them in the tank... We saw a few stuck on the glass... Hopefully, there aren't many... I guess we will need FLATWORM EXIT... We have to kill those critters before the tank becomes infested like a certain BA store display tank... :P

We must kill them... We must get rid of them entirely...

Thank goodness the tank is still relatively new and still cycling...no fishies yet... :)

Maintenance: Nov. 20, 2005 (evening) for SW tanks

Tonight, i did some testing on the 120G SW tank because vapo has another business trip but luckily it's just for a few days... :) The tank can just sit there and cycle... :)

120G SW Tank:

Salinity: 1.025
Temperature: 25.6C
Ammonia: 0mg/L
Nitrite: 0.1mg/L
Nitrate: 0mg/L
pH: 8.1
Phosphate: 0mg/L
Calcium: 420mg/L
Alkalinity: 2.4meq/L (total amount of alkalinty: 0.6)

Added ro water to the 10G SW tank because salinity level getting too high... :)

I auto-topped off the 20G tank in the kitchen with 2 bowls of water...and for the 120G tank, vapo added more ro water to get the salinity to 1.025... :)

We spent a long time just watching and looking at the tank together...it is a very warm feeling... I have to find 2 chairs or get a sofa down and slippers for the basement so we can comfortably watch the tank for a very long time... :)

I do love watching the tank and the fishes...I hope to be able to do that with vapo for a long time, so long that it can be measured...

Saturday, November 19, 2005

Savings at LFS

Today is another one of our fish trip days... :) Our day started out around 10am and we headed over to RR because they have a big shipment that just came in with a lot of fishes and they are having a two day sale only, Friday and Saturday...

Once we got to RR, there were a lot of people there already who were interested in buying fishes... vapo and I saw a very large regal tang (I've never seen one so big and I don't think vapo has either), we decided that it was definitely an expensive fish... :P We didn't stay long since we couldn't buy fishes for the large tank yet so it wasn't ready. We could try, of course, but it's not worth it to dump money into the sea, literally... :)

vapo say a fish he really liked...we asked J what it was and he said that that fish is a Golden Angel...and it was also on sale too! The Golden Angel is...$85! So it was a decent price but we couldn't buy it of course... :) Maybe we will get it later...if it isn't sold already!

After RR, we went to visit BA Mississauga since it was a 5 minutes drive from RR... LOL Once there, we saw some Pacific Nassarius Snails for sale at $1.99 each...We decided to get 10 of those...Hahaha, they are suppose to be good things... Next, vapo wanted to get some peppermint shrimps for his 120G SW tank because of the aiptasias in the tank...hmm... The price for the Peppermint Shrimps was previously 3 for $19.99...Hehehe...vapo wanted to see if he could get those at the price again... It worked!! vapo called K to see if he wanted some peppermint shrimps (since we would be heading over to his place afterwards) and he said yeah (coz of the cheap price, I think)... :) So we got 6...

At the cash, the girl behind the cash register was not particularly bright so we really weren't responsible for their loss... :)

Next, we went over to K's place to give him the purple lika starfish $20 and the peppermint shrimps 3 for $19.99...Also, vapo needed help with gluing the overflow containers back which we got from another fellow fishperson for free! :) So from K, vapo got back $43 (the $3 is the tax from the peppermint shrimps)... :) K also gave us some food to feed the corals and/or fishes...To us, they looked more like curry powder... :P Hopefully, no one will eat it thinking it's curry...hahaha... But thanks K!

We went to BA Ken afterwards to see what was there...By that time, it was past 1pm so we were a bit hungry... :) so we got hot dogs at the hot dog stand outside the store...it was good...at least, I gobbled mine up quickly... :P I guess I was hungry...Haha... We got some Margerite Hermit Crabs for $1.99 each...so we got 5 of those... :) They looked pretty good I must say...

We went over to Can. Tire on McCowan and Sheppard to buy some X'mas lights... They are $14.99 + tax and 9' long. We made sure to get the transparent outer plastic with blue LED inside. This is good for moonlights and it looks nice too when turned on... :) So it was a good deal... :)

All the snails and peppermint shrimps went into the 120G SW tank... :) They all landed in there alright... Mission accomplished... :)

On a more personal note, I always enjoy my fish trips with vapo and it is something I look forward to... :)

Purchases:

  • Pacific Nassarius Snails: 10 for $20 (1 for $1.99)
  • Peppermint Shrimps: 6 for $40 (3 for $19.99)
  • Margerite Hermit Crabs: 5 for $10 (1 for 1.99)
  • Blue LED X'mas lights: $14.99

TOTAL: $84.99

Money Received from K's purchases:

  • Purple Linka Starfish: $20
  • Peppermint Shrimps: $23 (including tax)

TOTAL: $43.00

So today, we made $20 from the BA purchase... :) and got $43 back from K for the things we got for him from another fish person and BA Miss... Woohoo...so it wasn't a bad day in terms of savings...... :) WOOHOO!!!! OOOSSSHH!

Aiptasia .... MY GOSH

So i was tank watching tonight and found out that the new batch of 2nd hand LR i got actually have aiptasia... ARRRRRRR.... I tried hard not to add peppermint shrimps in my tank because they will eat all my brown soft featherdusters, but looks like I do not have a choice but to buy them again... *sigh*.. those LR from cam were great b/c of all those little featherdusters... damn aiptasia....

Know where I can find cheap peppermint shrimps?

So many things to watch out for buying 2nd hand LR:
  • copper used
  • phosphate level in tank water
  • nitrate level in water
  • aiptasia
  • brown flat algae
  • avoid FOWLR LR
  • flat worms

Thursday, November 17, 2005

More LR in the 120G SW Tank

Tonight, vapo and I (I helped some) rearranged and placed M's LR we got from him on Tuesday into the 120G SW tank. M's LR weighs approximately 70lbs with some big and small pieces...which is good to stack and play around with... :) It took us amost 2 hours but that's ok...I don't mind helping him...

Next, vapo added more ro water to the tank to bring the salinity back down...

I saved a zebra hermit crab crawling on the floor! :) He is one lucky fella... :)

The look of the tank afterwards was worth it...I am sure vapo is pretty pleased with the progress thus far... I'm glad... :)

I think I can sit in front of the tank and just look at it... I suppose it means a lot to me since vapo and I started and worked on it since the beginning together...

Salinity: 1.024

Wednesday, November 16, 2005

Drowned new LR

So for the phosphate test:
new LR in 120G tank water for a day, PO4=0.25,NO3=5
20G Kitchen PO4=0.25
120G with PO4 sponge = 0

Tuesday, November 15, 2005

LR + LS + other goodies

So tonight, vapo and I headed into mississauga to pick up some live rocks and sand and other goodies from a fellow fish person, M.

It was dark and raining hard and the traffic was moving slow... Something funny that we noticed was that the houses jumped by 6's...meaning 2046 to 2052... :P That isn't something we are use to in Scarberia... :P It feels like 3 houses were missing inbetween the numbers...hahaa...

Anyways, once at M's, we picked up live sand and live rock, got some macro algae for free, 2 cleaner shrimps, 1 regal blue tang (for another fishperson), 1 purple linka starfish (for a good friend K, also a fishperson...M decided to give it to us for free, yeah!) and some miracle mud...

The total cost for all this stuff was: $290

Live Rocks + Live Sand: $200
2 Cleaner Shrimps: $30
1 Purple Linka Starfish: $20 (M said it was free but I guess he ended up charging us) :P
1 Regal Blue Tank: $40
Bunch of Macro Algae: FREE!!!

Afterwards, we had to meet up with the person who wanted the regal blue tang to give it to him...We met up him near the Sheppard subway station...and by this time, it was still raining and very windy... Luckily, he went through with the transaction and vapo got back $40... :) C wasn't able to pick up his linka starfish so vapo is keeping it in his tank for the time being... :P I hope it doesn't go bye bye... :)

Finally, we went back to vapo's place to put the things in their appropriate places... :)

===================================================================

Tests for M's Water (that we purchased the livestock in):

Salinity: 1.032
Ammonia: 0mg/L
Nitrite: 0.3mg/L
Nitrate: 0mg/L
pH: 8.1
phosphate: 0.25mg/L
Calcium: 430mg/L

Hopefully, the phosphate will go away since vapo has the rocks and sand running in his (old) 120G SW tank water...will have to check up on that...

vapo sifted through the sand for any rocks and foreign materials...and he has the rocks and sand running with filters and heaters ...

As for the 2 cleaner shrimps and linka starfish, vapo has put them in his 20G SW tank in the kitchen (for now)...He has also placed some macro algae in the 20G tank as well in the breeder box...

Monday, November 14, 2005

Maintenance: Nov. 14, 2005 (evening): 120G and 20G

Maintenance - 20G SW Tank
  • Place the chilli red (aka leather) in the 20G SW tank
  • Changed 20% water for the 20G SW tank in the kitchen
  • Took out some mushrooms and ricordeas to be placed in the 120G SW tank

Maitenance - 120G SW Tank

  • Pour old water from the 20G SW tank to the 120G SW tank
  • Placed some mushrooms and ricordeas from the 20G SW tank to the 120G SW tank

Chilli Red

Today, vapo called up a fellow fish person J who is lives in downtown Toronto...to check out his tanks and what fishes and corals he has to sell... :) vapo only did that coz he was in his downtown office...otherwise, he wouldn't have bothered... :P until J's shipment from Indonesia comes next week... ;) J says it is postponed to arrive on Monday...but unfortunately, vapo won't be in town that week...

vapo purchased a chilli red, at least that is what J says it is but seriously, vapo thinks it looks like a leather instead... LOL and it only costs $20! So that was still a pretty good deal... I love the colour, it's very sharp and i think vapo thinks so too; that's why he got it... :)

Purchase of the Day:
  • Chilli Red (aka Leather): $20

Sunday, November 13, 2005

Maintenance (TESTS) for Nov. 13, 2005 (afternoon): 120G SW Tank

120G SW Tank:

Salinity: 1.025

Note: vapo added some ro water to the 120g sw tank to bring the salinity level down from 1.026 to 1.025 which is ideal

A few minutes at BA North York

Sunday morning started out alright...vapo had lunch with his family and I ate with mine... Then he came over to my place to pick me up...

We headed on over to BA North York to check it out. We have not been there in a long time... In fact, we never had anything to buy there... :P We just go there and complain about their livestock and display tanks, basically... LOL Which is all good fun...

One of the display tanks was infested with red flatworms... It is so bad that it's scary...shocking to say the least... However, today we saw the tank didn't have as many flatworms as we previously noticed... I think they replaced a few of the rocks with other things such as button polyps... :P I must say, it looks better...doesn't look as contaminted...

Needless to say, we didn't stay long there since we had nothing to buy...and we had finished our complaining... :)

Saturday, November 12, 2005

Shipment deemed a disappointing one

Today, vapo and I woked up early to go to RR because they had a new shipment that came in yesterday. We saw some pictures of the some of the corals which were mainly ricordeas. I must say, they were beautiful and definitely very rare...at least I've never seen these before even vapo felt the same...and he know his stuff too... :P For me, I love colours and more colours...that's why I love zoos... :) They have so many different colours you wouldn't believe it... :P

So anyways, we made our journey into the 'sauaga area quite early and we got there a few minutes before 10am and RR was open already! Have to open early since many fish people were there... Honestly, I was expecting a lineup on a Saturday morning... LOL :)

Okay, so we went in expecting to see very beautiful and rare ricordeas... However, that was not the case. We were disappointed to see there were no ricordea colour explosions...which would have been eye candy for our eyes... :) All we saw were green ricordeas and more green ricordeas...how disappointing... :( I guess some die hard ricordea fans got their hands on them last night... :P but still, it proved to be disappointing considering we woked up early and droved all the way from scarberia to the 905 area...

However, vapo did manage to see a ricordea he liked and asked for my opinion...It was very green (which I liked) and I liked it too... :) so we got that after spending an hour at RR...haha... There were soooo many fish people there roaming the 2 isles that it got pretty crowded at times... :) Haha, I guess it was okay since people were sticking there hands in the big open rectangular tanks picking and looking at the corals... I say the owners were too busy and allowed for us to self-serve ourselves... :P Either that or they really don't mind... :P

The green ricordea was $120 since it was a colony... :)

Purchase:
  • Green Ricordea Colony on a Rock: $120

===================================================================

Vapo decided to put the green ricordea in the 120G SW Tank to see whether it will survive or not...so far it seems to be okay... :P

Maintenance (TESTS) for Nov. 12, 2005 (evening): 120G SW Tank

120G SW Tank Tests

Time: 7:40pm

Temperature: ~24.2C
Specific Gravity: 1.026
Ammonia: 0 mg/L
Nitrite: 0.1 mg/L
Nitrate: 0 mg/L
Phosphate: 0 mg/L
pH: 8.1
Calcium: 420 mg/L
Alkalinity: 2.2 meq/L

Maintenance (TESTS) for Nov. 12, 2005 (midnight)

120G SW Tank

Salinity: 1.026

=====================================================================

10G SW Breeding Clowns' Tank

Salinity: 1.027

=====================================================================
20G SW Tank

Salinity: 1.026
Things appear to be normal and stable...

Friday, November 11, 2005

Steal of the day...literally!

Vapo and I headed to BA Ken's after work... It get's dark early now and probably because it's a friday night, there weren't many fish people in the store... :P

We went downstairs to check on the sky blue and green carpet anemones and the sky blue anemone is healthier...and its colour is a lot more blue and less neon... In fact, it looks healthy! You can tell that by its closed mouth... :P Its mouth is sealed tight... LOL It was only last week did we see it with its mouth wide open and looking like it will die soon... We are pleased to say that we will get it (maybe) if the 120G tank is ready... ;) Of course, vapo will do more research on neon coloured anemones and asking people lot's of questions...

Are neon coloured anemones dyed?

Now to the steal of the day... vapo noticed something funny... he saw zebra hermit crabs for
2/$2.99 in one fo the saltwater tanks...at least that is what the labels says on the tank...and there are only zebra hermit crabs in the tank... :P Looking closely at the zebra hermit crabs, their legs are black and orange stripes! vapo told me he never seen that before, he's only seen zebra hermit crabs with black and white stripes! I told him, "Those aren't zebra hermit crabs! They are tiger hermit crabs!" That got a good laugh from vapo... :P

We both agreed that these were definitely much more expensive than zebra hermit crabs...so we got them quickly, hoping no one knows it's real worth... :)

We literally walked out the doors with silly smiles... :D

Steal of the Day:
  • 4 zebra(tiger?) hermit crabs : 2 for $2.99 4 for $5.98

Total Cost: $6.88

==================================================================

120G SW Tank: Livestock Addition => 4 zebra hermit crabs

Equipment Addition => 2x400W MH light + 2 NO Fluorescent Cover

Maintence (TO DO) for Nov. 11, 2005

To do list:

1. Cut frags for a fellow hobbyist (met up at vapo's place)

2. Changed water for the 20G SW tank in the kitchen

3. Changed water for 10G SW tank

4. Changed water for 120G SW tank

5. Cut and taped the black background to the 120G SW tank in the basement

6. Rearranged the rocks to a better position

7. Put the 2x400W MH light + 2 NO fluorescent cover on top of the 120G SW tank which is the final setup for the tank



******************************COMPLETED*********************************

Wednesday, November 09, 2005

MAST Meeting and a Sweet Acro Deal

Vapo is at the MAST meeting right now having a blast with so many fellow SW fish people around... :) The meeting takes place every second Wednesday of each month... :)

I wonder what he picked up from the auction... The last I heard from him was that he was planning to buy lot's... :P

===================================================================

NEWS UPDATE ON VAPO!!!!!

I just talked to Vapo on the phone and he excitedly told me (in a flurry) he purchased an ACRO frag for a low low price of $15!!!!!! Woohoo!!!! You can't find that kind of price for an ACRO (even if it's a frag) anywhere! It's pinkish purple and very nice looking... :) So that was Vapo's highlight of the day/night... :) I think he is pretty pleased with his frag...

Knowing him, I am positive that he would have gotten it...haha... I'm surprised he only got one thing but it's all good since he can save money for something else... ACRO is something he never tried his hands on and I know he would love to try but ACROS are expensive and at such a LOW price, how can he not buy it? :P His hands are itching for it... ;) Now, we just hope it will survive in his 20G SW tank with only a power compact as lights...before it migrates to his 120G SW tank in December... :) Hopefully, it will last that long...just have to put it up high in the tank...and watch it...
Keep your fingers crossed!

Purchase:

  • ACRO frag $15

Tuesday, November 08, 2005

Hurray for Good Deals!

Tonight, Vapo was suppose to purchase IO 160G Salt and a few overfill containers and tube from a fellow SW fish person, L... I met up with Vapo at the proposed location for the transaction and L shows up...with a surprise... :) Supposedly, L asked for $50 for the salt and $25 for the containers...He decided, what the heck, he will give the containers to us for free!!!!! That's a $25 saving...to be used elsewhere... LOL

Next, we went to PJPC and saw some fishes and plants there, along with a few very cute puppies and rabbits but nothing too interesting in the aquatics department... We find the prices are a bit on the high side...

After that, we headed on over to AquaP because they had a new coral and fish shipment today...Interestingly enough, there was a fish we never saw before. The owner of the store said it is a potter fish (can't remember its name exactly) but it was small and beautiful with snake looking patterns. I can't imagine how expensive it will cost to buy it since the owner said he wanted to get another one but the fish was too expensive so he only got one... @_@ Other than that, the corals and the other fishes were about the same...

Of course, Vapo used the $25 he saved from the overflow containers to purchase a blood shrimp for $26 (discounted already)... :) and it is indeed a lot cheaper than most other LFS... :) in fact, he only had to chip in $1... because he saved the $25 from the previous transaction earlier tonight...if you think about it that way... ;)

I think Vapo was pretty please with his purchases and savings tonight, I am glad... :)

Purchases:
  1. IO 160G Salt $50
  2. Overflow Containers and Tubing FREE!
  3. Blood Shrimp $26

Total Cost: $76

Monday, November 07, 2005

Big shipment week

Seems like RR or perhaps NAFB might have shipment this weekend... gotta save up tons of $ to spend... too bad the 120G is not ready for primetime... waiting...

Sunday, November 06, 2005

Purchases of the Day

Vapo and I had trouble finding the background for his 120G tank which he purchased from AquaP a long time ago... I wonder where it went... @_@ Vapo found a good deal for gravel filters last night... :) ...which can be used to change water... ah ha!

So today, we went to BA Ken to pick up 2 gravel sucker (short and long) from a fellow fish person...The tubing in itself was a good deal.

The total cost for both short and long gravel filters: $10.00

Next, we went back to AquaP to buy 5 feet of background...We decided to use the black background for the tank but we would have preferred purple... :) vapo also got some mysis shrimp... The total cost?

Total Cost for 5 feet background and mysis shrimp: $20.00

After that, we went back to Vapo's place to change both his FW tanks...and to do some grass/plant cutting... :) Have more grass/plant cuttings to sell... Woohoo...

I say it's a jungle in his 7G plant tank... :)

Test Results for the 120G Tank

These test results are the most up-to-date as I only did them today at around 12am... :) It has been a week since I've tested the tank and these are the findings:

Specific Gravity: 1.025
Ammonia: 0 mg/L
Nitrite: 0.1 mg/L
Nitrate: 5 mg/L
Phosphate: 0 mg/L
pH: 7.9
Calcium: N/A (can not test since we ran out of Ca #3)

Temperature: ~24.4 C

The conclusion? Not much fluctuation in the test results since last week except for a lower pH level of 0.2... So far, the tank seems to be doing alright...

Need Refills For:
  • Calcium: Ca #3

Addition To The Tank:
  • 30lbs of LR

Saturday, November 05, 2005

More Live Rocks for the 120G Tank

Today started out well with breakfast/lunch (brunch?) at a local Hong Kong style cafe. Then we went off to AquaP to look at fishies and corals...seems like they have a lot more stock in the store since the last time we visited... :) It's actually getting pretty crowded! Anyways, there wasn't much to buy there so we left after awhile...

After that, we went to BA Ken's and there were quite a few people there already... The find for the day?

Sky Blue Carpet Anemone $129.99

Now that was beautiful, I've never seen one in that colour and so sky blue looking! H has, in his friend's tank but his friend only has a minature version of it... :P But it's all good...

Next we went on our mission for today...to pick up/purchase live rocks from C... Of course, we had to call first since C is notoriously known to be sleeping by someone... :) He was home that day and we happily and eagerly went over to his place. Once there, we bumped into a a buyer, after they left another buyer (a chinese family) came over...and coincidently enough, we met this family last week at C's place and at AquaP... :P It is indeed a small world but to me, I find it kind of warming... Fish people are so nice and they really wanna help you, they will give you so many tips and helpful information... H is like that and I love it... :)

Both H and I went and surveyed all the rocks available and finally picked 30lbs of LR at $4/lb... :) It's a pretty good considering we picked up so pretty large flat pieces... :) The cost for today?

Live Rock: 30lbs
$4/lb
====
$120

After that, we decided to go to SuperP to look around and they didn't have their new flyer out yet so nothing much to see... We did a quick look around and left... :)

Next we went back to H's place to finish up with the rocks and to do more fish stuff and watch tv... :D

Now that is what I enjoy and love doing with H...nothing special, nothing fancy just very comfortable, warm and happy...



Tuesday, November 01, 2005

A week with no food?!

Today is day 2 since vaporize left for Montreal. He won't be back until Friday. I wonder how the fishes and corals are doing with no to minimal food... @_@ Especially the sun polyp in the 20G tank as it needs a special feeding regimen... :P The most maintenance required and with the highest possibility of casualties are the SW tanks...The FW tanks should be alright as they have been around for at least 8 months now... Hopefully, they will survive and there won't be any casualties...as vaporize and I have seen too many in the tanks already... Unless we can revive them...the corals, I mean... :) I doubt vaporize or I are ready to give CPR to the fishes...or to pump their hearts... :) But I really hope that nothing dies and everything is all nice and happy when vapo returns...